Thief Class and Etcetera

[Zero [Axel]]

*Thief Class and Etcetera

Grav and I have recently discussed the idea of a Thief class to incorporate into FM’s field of play. Thieves differ from the other character classes because they aren’t centered around battles but instead, indirect confrontations. But this doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be able to hold their own in a fight. They will be outfitted with skills not available to other classes and advantages that other classes don’t possess, but they do have their drawbacks.

There will be many limitations to a Thief’s character. First off is the lack of strength they will possess. Thieves will begin with only six AP to spend on abilities, fitting for a class that won’t rely on strength for success. Second, the Thief class will be limited to small and medium weapons; I.e. Knives, Short Swords, Hatchets, Daggers, etcetera. A Thief should not have a Great Sword or Large Axe.

But don’t think that due to a Thief’s physical inadequacy that they won’t be a strong class. The Thief will come with many advantages. First and foremost being a few new abilities that will come in the form of permanent equips. Thieves will be given a Loot, Death Without Consent, and Secrecy equip that will remain equip at all times, no exceptions.

The Loot ability allows a character to loot others but only if the character is dead, knocked-out, or incapacitated. At all other times, the loot ability is unavailable. **A Thief can only steal either 50% of an opponent’s items and weapons (must leave at least one weapon) or 10% of their munny and the Thief can choose which items they want to steal. If the Thief chooses to steal a weapon, all upgrades to the weapon will remain even when the weapon is transferred. The Loot ability can be upgraded to the Total Loot ability which allows theft of 100% of items and weapons (but still must leave at least one weapon) and 25% of munny but the Upgrade would cost 1000 or more munny to purchase. Purchase cost is debateable.

The Death Without Consent ability will allow the Thief to kill without the say so of the opponent but this also means that the Thief can be killed without the owners consent, either.

The last equip a Thief is given is the Secrecy equip. It allows a Thief class character to enter closed threads, save for Plots and Quest threads.

The Thief will also start out with a higher number of Equip and Items slots. Normal characters start out with two item slots and three equip slots. A thief will be given five slots for items and six for equips; but three slots will be automatically taken up by the Loot, Death Without Consent, and Secrecy equips.

Lastly, Thieves will be given a Safety Deposit Box to store items in. When items are stored in the Safety Deposit Box, they cannot be used or stolen. The Safety Deposit Box would be available for purchase for all characters for 1000 munny. Only items and equips may be put in the Box. Price is debatable.

*The Thief would be the equivalent of a Summoner class, not a Warrior/Mage/Defender class.

**Whether or not the Loot ability will allow the theft of Equips as well can be talked about.

[servant]

Looks rather overpowered ta me.

6 AP means you can afford one mega-nuke to throw at an enemy, and since you can just go about and enter closed threads where non-combats hang about and then kill them with absolute disregard for the player's wishes, you can easily procure some stuff for yourself.

If anything it looks more like a class that'll annoy others and force them to adapt to the thief's desires (namely, you cannot have locked non-combat threads if some jerk decides to ruin it) if those users of the class lack the basic courtesy of allowing other people their fun as well, and kind of makes the entire roleplay more competitive in that you cannot afford to make weak characters much anymore because that Single Strong Ability Nuke Thief is gonna ruin yur arr pee an.

[donald2]

Well, I expect members would have the maturity to choose when and when not to invade.

[Zero [Axel]]

I do see where you’re coming from but when was the last time you saw the staff let someone have Cluster Fuck Nuke abilities? I doubt they will let abilities that strong slide through. And plus, if you’re in an closed RP thread, that means there’s at least one other person with you, and two people taking on one thief should be easy, since a duo would have about 20 AP under their belt while a thief only has 6. Seems kinda fair.

[servant]

Apr 11, 2009 12:26:11 GMT -5 @donald2 said:

Well, I expect members would have the maturity to choose when and when not to invade.

Often times it's safer to assume the worst of others than to assume the best. Maturity is not popular on the internet.

I do see where you’re coming from but when was the last time you saw the staff let someone have Cluster freak Nuke abilities? I doubt they will let abilities that strong slide through. And plus, if you’re in an closed RP thread, that means there’s at least one other person with you, and two people taking on one thief should be easy, since a duo would have about 20 AP under their belt while a thief only has 6. Seems kinda fair.

"Nuke" refers to any strong ability that deals lethal damage while being quite difficult or impossible to withstand. Not just a cluster-freak one-hit-wonder ability or anything. =P People tend to twink for mega around here.

What is most offending in an invasion case, though, is not the fact that a thief could theoretically kill them (for all that I emphasised on this). It is more that:

1) Your wish to do something privately has been denied.
2) Your characters have to immediately adapt and fight, or else you LOSE STUFF.
3) If you fail for whatever reason, say hello to Lord Hades.
4) The mood for a peaceful romance/blossoming friendship/dramatic emo-moment has just been broken by the (attempted) murder just committed by either side.

Let's ignore for a moment what I argue to be negative points about this suggestion, and instead focus on positive things.

For what reason would this sort of thing be good or beneficial to the forums? What does it add to the game?

[Zero [Axel]]

I know what it means. =P But even if a thief does have an ability like that, they wouldn’t be the only ones with abilities that strong. I do kinda agree about the Secrecy ability and I don’t care if it’s a part of the thieves arsenal or not. I just thought it was an interesting idea.

I guess it would add variety. But, we could ask the same about the Summoners and Tamer classes.

[Akito]

Eh, I won't comment on it, but Iris will hate this. She's trying to reduce needless fighting and the secrecy equip will make her go Hulk mode.

[donald2]

Well, we could take out the "Secrecy" equip, making it much more balanced. So there Trap, your problem is solved. xP

As for Iris... We all need just a little bit of violence in RP. >_>

[Iris|Kairi]

[You guys do realize I'm not all..ANTI- VIOLENCE. I like blood spilling as much as the next person...all I want is some character development and for the violence to have some sort of purpose other than trying to kill everyone. xD No needless violence. It leads nowhere. Anyway, that's what the arena is for. XD]

-goes back to lurk mode-

[High's .Valentine.]

Uh, there ARE plenty of violence in the RPs at the moment. I see very little character development/socializing threads going on, to be honest.

As for this...

Personally, I feel that thread invasion should be a privilege reserved only for the Quest masters. Even quest masters should exercise caution when invading threads. =__=

All in all, the idea is OK. Might need refinement. I don't support it, but if people like it, we might be able to work with it.

[nascent]

As someone with a potential Thief-type character, this idea intrigues me. However, I agree with the others here that it seems a bit... imbalanced. So here's how I think a Thief build should look:

ROGUE CLASS
MAJOR CHARACTERISTICS
The Rogue class relies on surprise, guile, misdirection, and a good bit of luck. It has the potential to help a player to earn Munny and Synthesis Items a little bit quicker... IF they're willing to take risks and be creative. Those who play a Rogue character sacrifice physical defense and spell resistance for the blessings of Lady Luck. In Quests and Story threads a Rogue can move quickly and efficiently towards an objective, retrieve important items on the sly, and execute feats of stealth and deception not available to other classes. In the Arena a Rogue is the master of utilizing his or her surroundings to get the jump on their opponent. Overall, a Rogue character is best suited for RPers who'd rather think their way out of a tight spot than boldly charge into an enemy onslaught.

COMBAT QUALITIES

[Weakness]
The Rogue class is vulnerable in combat against the basic three classes of player character, taking a 25% hit verses Warriors, Guardians, and Mystics by default. This means that in a fair, face-to-face fight, a freshly created Rogue will generally lose to just about anybody. What's more, Rogues take a 50% penalty when facing off with any major monster encounter, such as a boss or mid-boss in a Quest.

Simply put, the Rogue is a lightweight.

[Strength]
The Rogue is, by nature, an opportunist. While combatively disadvantaged in most respects, their ability to see what others miss and inflict status ailments on their foes can take them from being the underdog to holding all the cards, so-to-speak. Combined with their potential to launch sneak attacks, underestimating a Rogue in a fight can be a costly mistake.


NON-COMBAT QUALITIES
Rogues are preternaturally swift-footed, cunning, and sharp-witted. This grants them a few choice feats they can perform outside of combat (see below).


LIMITATIONS
Rogues cannot wear heavy armor or wield large, heavy weapons like broadswords or sledgehammers. They also cannot have a Strong ability at creation, though they may later purchase Strong abilities or upgrade.


REQUIRED ABILITIES

[Acts of Stealth]
The ability to remain unnoticed and blend in with one's surroundings is vital to the Rogue, both in and out of battle. While not true invisibility, and therefore able to be detected through ordinary means, Acts of Stealth grant the character a solid chance of temporarily avoiding notice by NPCs, enemies, and other players' characters. In a Quest or moderated Story RP, the effectiveness of a character's stealth is in the hands of whosoever's running the thread (QM, Story Coordinator, etc...).

The player must make it completely and utterly clear in their post that they're trying not to be seen, including describing the method of hiding -- this is what the effectiveness of an Act of Stealth will be decided based on. The person running the thread will let the player know if their character's stealth is successful or not.

After a successful Act of Stealth, other characters will not notice the Rogue's presence unless:

• The Rogue attempts to use a magical ability or item, in which case any Mystic character nearby can immediately detect them.
  
• The Rogue attempts to leave the area where the Act of Stealth was performed. For instance, if a Rogue ducked into a shadowy alleyway, became hidden, and then began trying to climb over a fence, they would no longer be actively hidden. It would be up to the person running the thread whether the Rogue is detected or not.
  
• The Rogue does something that's just not very sneaky. Examples include: trying to steal someone's weapon right out of their hand, trying to use an Act of Stealth when another character's looking right at you, etcetera. Use your head; being a rogue isn't a free pass to doing whatever you want and getting away scott-free.

Rogues can only use an Act of Stealth when they're out of sight, with the sole exception being hiding in a large crowd of people. Even then, use some common sense. This is ducking and hiding and keeping quiet, not Ninja Vanish!

Furthermore, the longest a Rogue can stay hidden during battle is three posts. After that, any character may detect the Rogue for any reason. Outside of battle, the limits of this ability are in the hands of the thread's overseer.


[Sneak Attack]
When attacking from hiding, Rogues are limited to Weak or Moderate non-magical abilities, though regular weapon attacks may also be used. The reason for this is simple: a Sneak Attack allows Rogues to bypass their opponent's defenses and potentially do critical damage to ONE ATTRIBUTE. That's right: a chance to attack the opponent's attributes, such as their speed (by attacking the legs), strength (by attacking the arms), or defense (by attacking weak point(s) on their armor or other key areas). If successful, the targeted attribute remains severely weakened for four turns before it can recover.

If no attribute is clearly targeted (please state it OOC, just to be sure), then the ability/attack simply becomes stronger (Weak becomes Moderate, Moderate becomes Strong) and has only its normal effects otherwise. Additionally, if an ability such as Shell Aura or Reflect is in effect the targeted character can protect him/herself against attribute damage.


[Aura Thief]
While stealing actual Items, Equips, or other character property is just out of the question, this doesn't mean that a sly Rogue can't benefit from the unsuspecting. In the middle of battle, a Rogue can opt to sacrifice the chance to use his/her attacks & abilities for one turn and instead try to capture a small measure of one enemy's aura. This works much like the Steal command in Final Fantasy games, though the rewards are not actually made manifest until the battle is over.

To "steal" from an opponent's aura, the Rogue needs to get in close proximity to the target... close enough to reach out and touch them, and vice-versa. This puts the Rogue in danger of a point-blank attack that turn; the rewards, however, are equal to the risks. "Skimming" the target's aura, the Rogue takes a sample of the enemy's essence. If they survive the battle, the Rogue's stolen essence will become a Synthesis Material based on the discretion of a QM (for instance, the essence of a powerful Heartless would yield a Dark Crystal, a strong Nobody would provide a Twilight Crystal, etcetera...). Weak "canon-fodder" enemies, like Dusks or Shadows, don't yield any rewards however. This also cannot be done out of battle, so using Aura Thief on all the members of your adventuring group simply isn't in the cards. You want the rewards? You have to take the risks.

While Rogues can attempt Aura Thief while using an Act of Stealth, they have a high chance of being discovered while doing so. Also, you cannot Aura Thief the same enemy twice in one battle.


SUGGESTED ABILITIES

[Inflict Status Ailment]
Whether Weak, Moderate, or Strong, status effects are a Rogue's greatest assets against opponents in battle as they can level the playing field or even turn things in the Rogue's favor (if played effectively). Keep in mind that these abilities will be moderated closely, and their abuse will not be tolerated. They cannot be coupled with Physical or Magical attacks. It must be possible to dodge them somehow and the effect can only last 3 rounds max.


[Smokescreen / Distraction / Obstacle / Illusion]
A good Rogue knows that there's nothing to be gained by getting beaten senseless, so having a quick escape option handy is always wise. Regardless of the method, being able to put distance between you and your enemy, or drop off their radar altogether, can put winning a fight or escaping from one within your grasp. Keep in mind the rules for status effects when making this type of ability.


[Prevent Magical Detection]
Nothing quite like magic to turn the tables; a skillful mage typically has at least one or two ways to pick up someone they can't see. You'd be wise to turn the tables back around with an ability of some sort that works against such "sixth sense", unless you enjoy your skulking about being interrupted by fireballs.




CONTRACTS OF FATE
Additional rewards may become available to Rogues during Quests if they act in a QM's interests, helping to guide the story along and steer events in a certain direction. At the discretion of a QM, a player with a Rogue might receive secret PMs instructing them to take particular action at some point in the Quest. If the Rogue follows through on the request, the QM may add an appropriate bonus to the player's overall earnings at the end of the Quest -- this can include having the Rogue serve as a Quest enemy or leading the other players in a certain direction. The QM doesn't need to disclose his/her reasons or reveal any plot information in the PM; the Rogue must either accept or decline on the spot.


NOTE: If the person playing the Rogue is also the one in charge of the thread, then those players directly effected by his/her actions have the say on the outcome of certain Rogue-only abilities, namely Acts of Stealth, Sneak Attack,

Alternately, the player can opt for a non-involved third party to moderate the outcomes of these abilities.

Well, that's my idea. Suggestions?

[Akito]

Not bad, not bad. We already have several other classes, I suppose the development of a full fledged Class system may not be so hard.

Though, as a thought, just making an ordinary character like that seems possible, Nas. It doesn't have any real advantages that make it different from an OC designed with those abilities. But this was -very- thought out, Nas, and it looks all kinds of cool. I will make sure we discuss the possibility of a Class system because you took the time to think of something so detailed.

[prythian]

Now THAT'S a Thief Class. XD And far more balanced to boot.

Question, though: Do they start out with less AP or no?

And would the Required Abilities be passive, or would people have to make them?

[nascent]

Well, I don't really have a strong leaning either way as far as AP goes. If Rogues keep the regular amount then that gives them room to compensate for the inherent weaknesses built into the class... but if they start with only, say, 6 AP, it forces players to be resourceful with what they have, truer to the spirit of the Rogue.

I'll leave it up to you guys. Which would be better?

And Akito, I'm honored you think so highly of my little brainstorm here! ;D


EDIT: Hmm... well, with Aura Thief and Sneak Attack I'd say they'd be pretty standard across the board. Acts of Stealth, however... does open itself up to some variation. For instance -- and I'm just thinking off the cuff here -- a player could opt to specialize at hiding in darkness, or in forests, or in urban areas... hmm... an interesting idea, Pryth. I'll have to think on that.

[donald2]

I support Nascent's idea but.. Can we have it in a more condensed version? >_>