Thief Class and Etcetera

[nascent]

^_^; Sorry... I tend to run kinda wordy. If I have time tomorrow I'll try to edit it down to a manageable size. For now, though, I'd better get some sleep; 1am over here.

[Zero [Axel]]

I wasn’t too thrilled about Nascent’s variation; nothing personal, Nascent. But there are a few things I want to discuss and negotiate with everyone.

To start off, the only reason I put up this suggestion was mainly for the Loot ability and the thief class kinda filled in around it. It is a Thief class after all. What’s a Thief that couldn’t steal sh!t? It should be incorporated into the Thief

No one seems to like the Secrecy ability. We can strip that idea, idrc.

The Thief’s weakness to all the other classes wouldn’t work. Percents don’t function without stats. What’s 125% damage of a arrow to the chest? We really don’t know for sure because everyone’s choices would be different, so that wouldn’t work.

Since Thieves rely on items more, I still think an increased Item and Equip slot should in the class. And

The Death Without Consent thing, I’d prefer to keep it but if people don’t want it, whatever.

I would highly advise the addition of the Safety Deposit Box, even if not automatically with the Thief class. I think it would make a good item or whatever it would be.

Lastly Nascent, a thief is different from a rogue.

I think thats all I got for now.

[prythian]

The reason I don't like the Loot ability in particular? On a forum where character death is permanent, I wouldn't have a problem with it; you lose the items anyways.

On a forum like this where it ISN'T optional? Just gives people the ability to be a jerk and steal other people's items. The original concept, to me, didn't exactly seem like it would attract the mature players.

[nascent]

Yes, I know thieves and rogues are somewhat different, though there is overlap. I used 'Rogue' specifically because it gave a broader sense of what I thought was possible: not simply stealing and killing, but all things covert and sneaky. Plus, I simply don't think that a class of character that's aimed specifically at taking what other members of the forum have worked hard to earn is a good idea in any sense. It's not that I think your Thief design is a bad idea... just that it's not right for this community.

I can kinda understand what your angle on the Thief is. It's a way to make things unpredictable and give players a chance to earn stuff quicker by playing situations to their advantage. But the fact is, Final Mix (and forum RP in general) is only half about the "game" aspect; it's also about a community of people -- a community of storytellers, and you can't have a stable community if people are afraid of having their stories hijacked and their characters defrauded. The Thief is just... how shall I put this?... "anti-social" in that respect. Everyone has voiced concerns in this direction, but I figured I'd just come out and say it.

It's not a criticism of you, Zero. It's a good idea that you've clearly put a good deal of thought into... but I just don't think it's good for here. If the forum worked differently, maybe, but as it stands... I think the Thief would just sow chaos and discord. Sorry.



EDIT:

The Thief’s weakness to all the other classes wouldn’t work. Percents don’t function without stats. What’s 125% damage of a arrow to the chest? We really don’t know for sure because everyone’s choices would be different, so that wouldn’t work.

Fair enough, but consider the existing system. Mystic, Guardian, Warrior... all listed as 25% stronger or weaker than one another. How does this play out, without stats? Quite well... as a general writing guide.

I really hope this forum never resorts to stats; I've seen what that's like, and it's not roleplay in the true sense. The point behind most, if not all the rules governing RP is "let this idea guide your writing". When I say a Rogue takes a 50% penalty vs. quest bosses, that basically translates as "this type of character shouldn't rush into a fight". It also gives the QMs and Story Coordinators justification for why some things happen in-story, which is essential for doing their jobs.

[Shinn]

I don't see much use from this class. Much of what Nascent has already said can pretty much tell you how this wouldn't work out. But the idea of stealing ones items can be done as long s it's in a fair way. Take the arena matches, that could very well be one way of doing this. Instead of just munny on the line, you can also bet with items and equips.

I think the real problem with this class is what it does, if you were to just make the thief class more beneficial to itself without screwing other people over, then it could still work. A thief class could even be something worth having in events and quests. What if the thief class could steal extra items during quests and perhaps even receive more when they are completed?

[nascent]

Apr 12, 2009 14:20:38 GMT -5 Shinn said:

I think the real problem with this class is what it does, if you were to just make the thief class more beneficial to itself without screwing other people over, then it could still work. A thief class could even be something worth having in events and quests. What if the thief class could steal extra items during quests and perhaps even receive more when they are completed?

See the Rogue class suggestion earlier in the thread.

[Shinn]

Now see that would be something to have, although I wonder as far as regular rps go what benefits would there be. This Rouge class you made is definetly ideal for Quests, Arena matches, and Events but I don't see much use outside of that. Those things don't make up everything that happens in rping they're more of a side game really depending on the member.

[Rocket!]

So you're suggesting subclasses that only take effect in event-like situations?

Interesting thought... and worth thinking on!

[Heroic Bilby]

.thief.class.

This special character class exists to add an element of mystery and accomplishment to a character. Its focus is upon moving an RP towards new, unexpected directions while rewarding the player for mixing things up. To make a Thief simply write Thief in the Special Class section at the top of your character profile, as you would for a Summoner or Tamer.

A Thief, upon creation, will still start out with 0 AP to spend on their own abilities, meaning they get none and they will never get more. Purchasing the ability slots and upgrades is impossible for a Thief. They can, however, upgrade their weapon with abilities at the Blacksmith Shop. Thieves are limited to light, concealable or long-range weaponry for their choice of arms.

Thieves begin their life with 10 Item Slots and 4 Equip Slots. These numbers can not be increased. They also get a five-finger discount of 100% to fill five of those ten Item Slots with whatever they want from the Item Shop.

A Thief is also the only character who can buy and use special Upgrades, Items and Equips sold at the Black Market Shop. While expensive, the Black Market is the way to maximize the potential of a Thief. Here they will learn the secrets of relieving others of their excess possessions, among other important things.

[ NOTE: Abilities such as Mug/Loot/etc will be acquired here, but will not result in a player actually losing anything of their own when used by a Thief ]

To replace true abilities Thieves will instead choose a single Specialty. Specialties will range from pickpocketing to lock-picking to disguises to stealth to treasure hunting to information retrieval. Whatever the creator believes will most benefit their Thief, and it can also be by any method they desire(Imagination always appreciated), though true magic is forbidden. The player will submit how their Thief utilizes their Specialty upon creation, placing it in the Abilities area of the character template.

In RP a Thief changes things up by being able to act independently of the other characters, special event, or even Quest Master depending on the type of thread. Using their Specialty a Thief can act as a miniature plot of their own by spawning secrets, events, hidden items, or NPCs as desired, though not abundantly so. Think of them as generators of side-quests in events that already have a main focus but little else, maybe even branching into entirely new threads.

In these side-quests a Thief will often have a goal that others will either want to help them to or stop them from achieving(Maybe without even knowing the truth). When a Thief is successful in completing their objective they might not get to keep any special item or secret made up for the event, but its sure to sell for a pretty penny on the Black Market. By posting a link in it the Checkout for it with a link to the event and a summary of how it went/the reward a suitable offer will be made for it. An offer the Thief can't refuse. Those who participated in the side-quest might also end up with a few dropped pieces of munny to line their pockets as a result.

Its important for a Thief to take a break from the personal gain now and then to relax in some stress-relieving threads though, so only one Side-Quest can be generated by a single Thief at a time.

That's... the best I can think of off the top of my head. Needs a lot of refinement though. If we were to create a Thief class we'd want it able to affect how the player actually RPs in normal threads, after all. Like Shinn said. I'm not convinced what I wrote above would be the best way to do that. =/

Hmmm... criticisms?

PS: No this isn't an official staff thing, just something I wrote up as a member like the rest of y'all. XD

[Zero [Axel]]

Thief Class Revamp

AP and Abilities
Thieves, upon creating, will have only four AP to spend. This will keep their power output limited since Thieves won’t rely heavily on their own magical abilities. They will be able to choose two weak abilities or one moderate one. A Thief class will only be able to have a maximum of five abilities total to limit their power.

Weaponry

The Thief class will rely mainly on their weapons. It will help RPers break from the comfort of magic. To compensate for their lack of abilities, Thieves will be given two primary weapons instead of one, which normal classes get. They can upgrade both primary weapons to the fullest extent. When a weapon reaches its Supreme quality, it will have one extra weak slot and one extra status material slot. So, all in all it will have two weak slots, one moderate, one strong, one elemental, and two status slots.

Secondary weapons can be upgraded to a Fine quality only; allowing one weak slot.

The downside to this is that a Thief cannot use large weaponry or heavy armor.

Items and Equips

Again, since Thieves don’t use heavy magic to defend themselves, they must rely on other possessions. An increased number of item slots will help them do just that. They will be granted ten items slots from the get go, but can’t buy any more than that.

Equip Slots will be increased to a maximum of six, but three of those will be taken up by permanent preset equips. More slots cannot be purchased.

Preset Equips

Loot – Allows the thief to loot the body of a dead, knocked out, or incapacitated target. At any other time, Loot is unavailable. Loot doesn’t allow a total theft of all items. If the character being stolen from is knocked-out or incapacitated the only thing the thief can steal is a max of two items or 10% of the target’s munny. If the target is dead, a max of three items can be stolen or 20% of the target’s munny. This ability doesn’t only work on players though. Monsters can be stolen from as well, making a thief a good ally to have while hunting for synthesis materials or rare items. Theft from a monster will lead to twice as many items or discovery of better items. Monsters may be looted for everything from munny to equips and shop coupons. Actual items found will be under the discretion of the Quest Master. You may not start your own thread to kill 1000 heartless just to farm for items. If you’re killing a large monster or something for a personal plot and a Quest Master or Staff Member wants to let you get items for it, then feel free.

Mug – Mug gives a thief the opportunity to steal while performing a close quarters, physical attack. An item may only be stolen if the actual attack hits and only one item may be stolen during the mug. This can only be used once in a thread.

Haggle – A passive skill that drops official shop prices by 10%.

These must be equip at all times, no exceptions.

Preset Items

Safety Deposit Box – The SDB doesn’t take up an item slot on your character because it would be a passive item. The SDB would be used to store items not being used by your character. Items and things in the SDB cannot be stolen by others or used by the owner. It can hold over 1000 items. The Thief will get one to start out with but SDBs can be purchased in the shops for 500 munny.

[upsilon]

It really, really, really, really, really won't work. Thieves on a site where death is neither permanent nor non consensual is plain and simple just a way for people to be jerks to each other like Prythian said. If this was passed it would cause so much drama it's not even funny. If you want a thief make a character that's a thief, just don't expect to be able to steal anything. Aladdin was a thief too was he not? If you got him as a canon he wouldn't be able to steal either. Neither would Vaan from FFXII. If you wanna take someone's munny or items, just take it to the arena guys.

Besides, the only reason you'd want to steal anyway is because you're too damn lazy to earn shit yourself like the rest of us hard working members.

[Zero [Axel]]

Lazy? Not at all. I think the idea of having to protect your items like you’d have to protect your life is an interesting concept. A thief may have to work just as hard to steal some items as it would be for you to buy them in the shop. And if you’d be that scared to lose a few items or munny then don’t fight them. Simple, no?

But thanks for your contribution. =D

[kempff]

It's do-able. Are (thief) characters going to be more literary based or are they going to be some D&D imitation? Get around that and this might happen.


(noted paretheses done for a reason)

[Zero [Axel]]

I've never played D&D so I’m not sure what you’re talking about. =/

Do you mean, are they the stereotypical thieves or something?

[kempff]

No, in D&D characters are the pretty little figures or pictures people make when in fact they're just statistics and numbers with probability of success determining what happens. A certain bit of luck factors into this when DM's give choice, even then the choices can be attributed percentages as to how a character can be successful.
Mechanic wise, die and reaction rolls, checks, what's possible are what the numbers show.
Apply this to regimented character types with rules pinpointing absolutely everything they do: 50% of this, in this circumstance this can come into play....is the character a literary driven work or just a sheet of numbers and percentages to increase probability of success?

((Are the Warrior, Defender, Mystic whichever so called character types really used that much as is (does anyone use that triangle rock paper scissors system? or even bother with the class abilities)? Summoners and Tamers really have no relation like that to the other three classes. Just noting this. Do classes need to be related in any fashion or should they have their own formats?))

So to wrap up, will people be moved to use the thief class to role-play with it or as some have said manipulate certain intricacies for their own means? Personally I think there's a larger matter here, but to focus on Zero's idea that's what it is. I support this idea by the way.