Why?

[Member Formerly Known As Axel]

In all honesty, I agree with a lot of what N. Sky has said. Yeah, some classes seem kind of pointless. Really, all together they seem pointless without a stat system. It's really just more shit to type out and fuck around with. It was really more trouble than what's benefited from it. I remember that FM claimed to be a forum that didn't oppress the creative flow with stats and other bullshit like that but what's happening is the exact opposite. Focusing too much on money and developing characters through the use of shops...Might as well use a stat system, at least it would make a little more sense. Who needs money to add character growth and development? Sora, Donald, and Goofy sure didn't. When the forum first started, it was better. Just a few simple items like Phoenix Down, Potions, ect. Now there's so much shit it makes my head spin. How often will we actually be using most of that stuff? Once every few RPs? Classes shouldn't necessarily be based on us saying, "Hay, can i has a mage?" Instead, it should be based on the abilities our characters have. A warrior class would have more melee based abilities and concepts, and its those abilities that make the character that class.

That really covers the first two questions.

Members giving away items or whatever? I do see a problem with that. Maybe if the admin set up a list of items members could give other members via RPing/quests/plots and restricted the better stuff to QMs, then that would be fine.

Keyblades. Eh, now-a-days Keyblades seem utterly useless. Sure, they are supposedly super powerful clusterfucks but what actually makes them that way? How powerful a keyblade is to one person will differ from how powerful it is to another. Now, in v1, they actually had some use since they were a significant item in the forums plot, along with the Lockshields. Now that theres no real use for them, there really not worth shit except looks and the acknowledgment of wasting 4000 munny on them. In all honesty, only the characters from the game that actually wielded the keyblade should have them unless some weird forum-wide plot happened where an OC was to get the keyblade themselves.

[Akito]

Deja vu. I think I've heard this all before. Yes, yes I have.

I know what you are trying to get at, look at the Market Comment Thread. There will be several pages of it. If you're still unsatisfied, we will dance this dance once again.

[High's .Valentine.]

Aww, thanks for answering for me, guys. I really appreciate it. :3

Anyway.

I think Akito is talking about this. Four pages long of debate. Have fun.

Also. Don't worry about being targeted. If you look back on the history of this particular question board, you can see that there were plenty of others who questioned and fussed and nit-picked. Everyone targets each other, slings mud, feel discriminated. It's the nature of the question/suggestion board. So, you're not the only one.

I know you're questioning a bunch of FM's current features. I know some of us can be close-minded [me included]. Frankly, FM's far from perfect at the moment. Accepting changes is hard for some of the members, especially when we're trying to please as many as possible. Remember that we're not some kind of computer though. Nothing becomes perfect as soon as someone asks a question about a certain system. We can't instantaneously transform ourselves and chuck stuffs down the drain in order to please a few people. Still, you never know. Maybe some changes will come out of this.

[Night Sky]

Bilby you keep answering my questions and making me ask more now. When these new class additions were added how often were they used? I get this feeling that the only ones who ever used them were to those who suggested it in the first place. I think it would have been better to mix some of the new ones into the first three classes instead of just making all these new ones. Summoners sound like they would be in the mage class, techs could be the defenders, and Tamers, well... lets face it they're pretty much Summoners in reality.

See it would be better since the first three classes don't give you as much variety like the special classes do, and special classes don't give you a special ability like the first three. If you were to combine them, then that would make the classes much more balanced than how they are now.

[angelous]

Here's the thing NS, you get both a mage, warrior, or defender class, AND if you so choose, a special class. So you still get the special ability. At the bottom of the character template

[b][i]Before you embark on your journey a vision comes upon you. You see three weapons in front of you.[/i]

~ A sword of terrible destruction - The power of the warrior: Invincible courage.

~ A shield to repel all - The power of the guardian: Kindness to aid friends.

~ A staff of wonder and ruin - The power of the mystic: Inner strength.

You know that one of them must be chosen. What power will you seek?
[/center][/b]
(note this is only part of the character profile template made by Dragon Writer)

You pick one of those three, and thus you have your normal class and ability. So a tech could be a mage, and a summoner could be a warrior.

[prythian]

Angelus is, indeed, correct. Special classes are in addition to the warrior-defender-mage triad.

[servant]

I'm not complaining, I just asked everyone why this is there, or why do we have this, or can we do this instead?

Just to interject with a little psychology here, people usually feel that newcomers shouldn't be suggesting things to change to better suit their needs, since it's a little rude. It may be that this caused some of the unnecessary ire in this thread.

Aren't we already using the "special" and regular classes together? Summoner Defender and stuff? I'm so out of it. I kind of ignore all the special plusplus stuff since I don't care for pee vee pee, I just want to write stories. XD Screw your rules, I'm having fun.

[nascent]

Let me see if I can get right to the root of all your concerns in one fell stroke, Night Sky.

I've seen RPing done a lot of different ways over the years; if you want the full run-down I'd suggest clicking here. The rules of any one RPing community ultimately reflect (a) the dispositions and experiences of those in leadership, and (b) the focus(es) and values of the forum community as a whole. That said, there are three main categories that most RP forums fall into: Free Play (which you seem to be well acquainted with), Structured Play, and Hybrid (which means any middle ground of the two).

Structured Play is often just a stone's throw from the complexity of something like Dungeons & Dragons or other rules-heavy tabletop RPGs; people often lean towards structured play if they don't think they've gotten a fair shake on Free Play RP forums. While Free Play RPs can be just as good as any other sort, they open the door to godmodding and powergaming... people abusing the freedom of such systems to have characters with whatever items, weapons, skills, and powers they want tend to ruin the RPing experience for others with their "omnipotence".

NOTE: I am by no means suggesting that you are such a person, only stating what I have observed over my 12 years of RPing and Sparring experience.

To create communities where godmodding doesn't happen (or is easier to prevent), many RPers -- especially those involved in competitive "Sparring" RP -- opt to make Hybrid or Structured Play forums that work more like a traditional RPG than a Free Play RP. This is the underlying cause behind most of what you're asking about... and also, I suspect, why you might have sensed some hostility from others when you questioned these things. It's not that there's anything wrong with Free Play RP... just that not everyone is mature enough to do right. Thus we cling to structure and order and systems, because even though they may limit creativity somewhat they also create a modicum of enforced fairness and balance. No one can have an all-powerful character their first day... but neither is it impossible to expand your character's abilities to the point where you're happy with them.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Hybrid and Structured Play are the 'opposite reaction' to things like godmodding and powergaming in Free Play RPs, plain and simple.

Please understand that nobody here really intended to be spiteful or distrusting of you -- that's not only against FM's official policies for newcomers, but also not the heart of those who RP here. Please understand that this is just a different way of doing things; there's no right or wrong way, just people's preferences and comfort zones.

I really hope that helps some. As I offer to everyone, if you need help getting started here or have any questions don't hesitate to PM me. I'll do what I can to make your Final Mix experience a good one!

[Heroic Bilby]

Jul 10, 2009 15:36:26 GMT -5 Night Sky said:

When these new class additions were added how often were they used?

I don't follow the character creation board so I couldn't tell you. You'd have to ask a character mod. I do know I've seen plenty of Summoners in-RP and noticed a handful of Techs pop up after it first went up. But the reality is that we aren't a forum with a large member base. I wouldn't EXPECT to see them appear in mass quantities because the raw manpower for such a thing to be reasonable doesn't exist here yet. They are a "niche" market. The point was to make the option available so people with the desire had more freedom in their character creation. I'm a fan of no-rules play myself so I at least look for a system that tries to free up options in it even if it must ultimately be limited. That was why I liked seeing these things appear on the forum way back when with Summoners. It seems nice for the option to be there to me since it doesn't infringe on anything else.

Jul 10, 2009 15:36:26 GMT -5 Night Sky said:

I think it would have been better to mix some of the new ones into the first three classes instead of just making all these new ones... See it would be better since the first three classes don't give you as much variety like the special classes do, and special classes don't give you a special ability like the first three. If you were to combine them, then that would make the classes much more balanced than how they are now.

As mentioned already, Special Classes don't replace the normal Classes. If you have a Special Class you still have to pick a normal Class as well. Special Classes only affect what you can customize the character's abilities with.

[Night Sky]

Oh I see, I thought that you replaced that section if you wanted a special class thanks for clearing that for me Villainous Angelous.

But for the record, I wasn't making suggestions to suit my needs. All of my needs have been met, I was just wondering what all of this extra stuff was there since it didn't look like you needed it. But if there really are people on here that rp that way then it must serve some kind of purpose.

[angelous]

No worries mate, way back when I was a new member (which wasn't long after the site originally opened up) I asked loads of questions too. And hey curiosity never killed nobody, except the cat.

[ophelia]

Let me provide also provide N.Night with a delightful analogy that will explain the “root” of our initial animosity- if you will. (To avoid any further confusion.)

Imagine an apple orchard. Then imagine the Happy-Farmer who runs the orchard and chiefly grows- you guessed it! Apples! Then imagine a kid who walks up to this happy farmer and pokes him hard in the side.

“WHY DO YOUR APPLE TREES GROW APPLES!” shouts the Kid.

“Because...they are apples trees?” The Happy-Farmer rubs his chin thoughtfully.

“WHY DON’T YOUR APPLE TREES GROW SQUASH!”

“Are you interested in cultivating apple trees that grow squash?” asks the Farmer politely.

“NO! I HATE FARMING! I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY! WHY?! WHY?! WHY!?”

“Uh...” the Farmer says. “Why do you want to know why if you have no plans to farm?”

“TO KNOW!...And apples suck. Your chief crop is useless and arbitrary. Your squashlessness is pretentious in its essence. You have no purpose. Although I do not wish to offend you by saying this.”

“No purpose? Pretentious? But I like apples. That’s why they are my only crop.” the farmer looks crestfallen.

“I can see that CLEARLY no one has questioned you before. The signs of an agricultural hegemony are everywhere, and very obvious and very corrupt in their obviousness. They must be signs of corruption.”

“But they have. This is why I grow Golden Delicious, and Macintosh, and Granny Smith, and Gravenstein! I grow many kinds of apples due to the constant questioning and innovation of other farmers....AND SQUASH SUCKS!....LOSER!”

“SQUASHLESS USELESS DWEEBY INTELLECTUAL!”

“HOLIER-THAN-THOU-APPLESS-HEATHEN!”

The kid then proceeds to kick the Happy-Farmer in the shins and preform rude gestures in the direction of the Happy-Farmer’s cute and cuddly australian rodent. (Penned near the barn and twitching it’s nose innocently.)

The Happy-Farmer then retaliates by stepping back and politely releasing his vicious hogs. Who then proceed to (politely) chase the kid screaming through the surrounding cornfields. Although the hogs want nothing better than to sit down and have a civilized chat with the kid, and the kid wants nothing better to sit down and have a civilized chat with the hogs. Communication is skewed (for kids don’t speak hog, and hogs don’t speak kid) and secondary desires conflict. The hogs are strangely compelled to devour the kid. And the kid is strangely compelled to run until his short little legs give out.

I hope that was extremely helpful and informative in explaining our collective FM conscious (and may liquidate any scruples you may have had with us).

[Heroic Bilby]

Is Ophelia calling me a male chauvinist pig? I'm not! Honestly!

Well, the question of "Why?" has apparently been answered. Early Christmas for everyone! And also time to retire the thread.