Sperm, Amazons Rise

[Detox]

Read and learn.

A sperm cell has been created from stem cells.

We're one step closer to test tube babies and women no longer needing us guys.

Discuss.

[kempff]

No, humans love sex too much.
We're probably 50 years away from that at least, pending drastic social change.
We have no real idea how to keep our species genetically diverse, how to combat disease should a new plague appear that targets humans and we're suddenly very closely alike, etc.

edit:don't forget natural selection and evolution, we're not aware yet, how those forces would affect stem cell created sperm cells.

I'm not impressed Time is doing this honestly, they're...not the best news service.

[Detox]

Sure we have an idea how to keep humans diverse. Hence the customizable baby idea.

[kempff]

Do you actually think Scientists understand the entire Human Genome sequence?
Movies like Gattica are not very scientific, socially true, science no.
Choosing which genes to use, sure sounds neat, that's theory.
It can be done in theory, but is it successful? Will the clone live a normal life span?
Will the clone grow normally?
Don't forget how backwards the States are in this convo....

[Detox]

The entire one? No. Enough to keep diversity strong and allow room for subtle mutation (and thus more diversity)? Yes.

As for whether such a human would live a full, healthy life is all theory, but I can't think of a reason other than imperfect creation for it to happen. And possibly some odd psychological issues.

Edit: If you don't like Time, then simply Google around. Time was just the first one that I grabbed for this topic.

[Akito]

Once Virtual Reality sex is developed, all humans will become shut ins.

This is the first step to being taken over by a stronger, fast, and smarter primate. As the Cro-Magnonl usurped the Neanderthals!

[kempff]

And how can you can say they understand diversity?
We often say we understand something, but are proven wrong. (ie Mecca concerning scholarly study before year 1000, the Popes in Medieval ages concerning all studies and universities, Free Markets before end of 2007, etc)
Do you understand why natural selection occurs?
Why do species evolve?
How can humans claim just because we can "purportedly" clone ourselves that we're not messing with those fundamental forces?
Having both of those happen is very important, to a diverse species that has rare alleles and traits in abundance.
That's why there's an AIDs resistant population in northern Italy.

There are more reasons why a clone would not be viable, many concerning how the clone is created. How long did Dolly the sheep live? How long are the mice in China living?

As for Time, most often these stories are AP recycled. Other times they're made to look good for scientists involved to get more grant money or to appease investors.

Granted it could be a journalist author, I can't remember, but Time is just a respected name/logo to which journalist send their articles trying to make them seem important. Seeing scientific peer reviewed articles and research is more meaningful.

(I'm playing doubtful just to create discussion.)

[Detox]

[That's fine. I'm going to ride this out until I get my 30 posts. xP]

I can agree that we always say that we understand something, but are proven wrong at a later date; positive or negative.

But if you don't try, you can't know what you have and what you don't have to work with.

[kempff]

It's particularly telling that in the article it mentions sperm cells made from these male stem cells have not been tested to actually make viable offspring. (hype factor)

It's interesting additionally that female stem cells will not make sperm cells: in cloning's case this is good, as X chromosomes making sperm cells would be odd.

And then you see this is a group from Britain, so while they have their ethics in place, this would not happen in the US so publicly. Very sad.

[Detox]

Right, like everything, it isn't perfect. It is one step closer, though. If it fails, then we'll learn something in the process. If not, then we really have very little---ethics aside---from creating humans in this manner.

[kempff]

The age of consequences into the age of forlorn identity, intellectual rights, creative rights....etc. Churchill would be sad, sad, sad.

[Detox]

Until that day, there are plenty of consequences and limitations, but sure, within our lives we will probably see such an upheaval, but probably not to the level of armies of clones or something.

=P

[kempff]

Aug 4, 2009 1:57:48 GMT -5 Detox said:

Until that day, there are plenty of consequences and limitations, but sure, within our lives we will probably see such an upheaval, but probably not to the level of armies of clones or something.

=P

First the social change has to occur to let those happen.
Then they have to be viable.
I personally think near 100%/full 100% Robotic armies are much more likely than clone armies in the near future.
Alas, nothing is stopping the Military in this country from developing Robotic anything with whatever contractor they find since their budget is limitless...and the people sure as hell need their armies.

[Detox]

I definitely agree.

Clones or not, the desire to save human life and reduce suffering will be there. And thus, the desire for robotic armies. Not to mention robotic machines---although controlled---are already replacing men on the battlefield.

But like the clones, robotics are too expensive and not advanced enough to be used in place of a healthy man.

Though, I'm sure there is a novel in there somewhere. A world where clones are used in place of robots, because the clones are easier/less expensive to mass produce. How fun.

[kempff]

A world where clones are used in place of robots, because the clones are easier/less expensive to mass produce. How fun.

You are constantly running into ethics with those kinds of claims concerning clones.
Not that I really think you're wrong on any count.
(You should read 50-70's science fiction, ethical dilemmas and war time topics such as this are common place. They had a very different attitude about them with WWII/Korean War/Nam/all of the other conflicts being mass televised and covered so recent.)

Until the control of Christianity is loosened on the so called "unbiased" media (and the corporate sponsors are shaken up), I feel science in America will encounter limitless problems in advancing Clones and Stem Cells for any purpose.
Subsequently our Scientific aspirations are going to crap compared to other countries.
I really doubt American scientists have half as much freedom of pursuit as their European counterparts (though concerning stem cells that's not so true, and if conservatism grasps for power...).
Of course this isn't concerning all fields of science.

As for robots costing too much, it's just like new TV's, just like the new BlueRay players; all the new stuff is expensive, but once it can be cheaply made without the initial bugs and it works correctly in 95% of the products (thus profits are assured) then you will see robotic compliments in the military fly off the proverbial shelves.
And the military really has no budget constraints, until the culture of Washington is changed. Eisenhower did warn us...

Drones, which I believe you're alluding to, are a great example.
I have to admit, I think robotic organisms and clones have an odd correlation with the other in concern to the human population.