Israel vs. Hamas

[balati]

Article

Well it seems Israel has started fighting Hamas, and I hope you guys don't mind me asking but...

Why are the fighting? Is it particularly religion, did the United States influence this in anyway? Do you think it is worth it?

Oh yeah...Do you support the war in the middle east?

I'm neutral when it comes to that hatchet.

[yami]

I dislike what's going on there, it's like that part of the world just won't change. I don't favour any side per say, rather dislike both sides (no offense to the people of those nations that are presently in the nation, overseas, etc). I find myself asking the same question as you Balati: "Why are they fighting." It's basically land, religious belief, etc tied into one. Israel is the promised land for Hebrew's. Yet Hamas and co (palestinians) have been there forever also. It's just generations of ridiculous bloodshed over religion no less and I dislike it immensely.

However I won't say anymore, no need to get into a flaming war with some member. I just wish it would end, why can't we be friends D: Why must we focus on differences, instead of similarities.

[kempff]

Hey props to you Balati for starting this thread! I was considering it but decided otherwise, though with it here I'll give my input.

Israel is an invasion state, Judaism in the region was symbolically controlled by the Romans when Masada was taken in the first century. Yes, Jews still lived in the area but the Roman Empire controlled the area, which many other people lived in as well. These people were the ancestors of the current Palestinians. They have stayed there ever since, in other words over 2000 years living peacefully (relative peace) with others while enduring under Empire after Empire. After the conclusion of WWII and the revealed plot of Nazi Germany to kill Jews on a mass scale the "Allies" felt such events should never happen again and a Jewish state be created (however do not forget that most of the "Allies" are Christians or Catholics and despite what you might think, relations between the former and Jews are always a tumultuous thing, aka they saw a great chance to get rid of the Jews from their countries, after all they didn't accept many of them when the Jews fled Germany at the beginning of the War). The area chosen was the ancient homeland of the Jews along the Mediterranean (Jerusalem was the preferred center I believe), which the aforementioned Palestinians were living as they had been for over 2000 years. The decision to create modern day Israel was a sole Jewish State for the Jews, thus Israel was created and the Palestinians suddenly had millions of new neighbors. Remember the Palestinians are Muslim and their history with the Jews while muddled, then became ugly; literally people were forced out of their homes and relocated. The Jewish claim was that thousands of years ago they'd controlled the area (though Masada clearly showed they were under Roman dominion like many other peoples of the first century), though the Palestinians had been living there before and ever since that time. Now of course how did Israel survive enraging the Palestinians and their Muslim allies? By having Allied protection and aid, which most see as US help today. This is the case, Israel is supplied with US weapons and technology and remains the "country's" most important ally. At the same time Israel has fended off war after war, conflicts on-end against the Muslims in the region: simply put Muslims see an invader backed the US displacing their "brothers and sisters" and come to their aid. Christianity and Judaism have not controlled the Middle East for centuries, if not a millennium, as Islam has. Of course the West comes off as Imperialists in this occasion in time, I believe with this all said we can see both sides of the equation and sympathize with the Palestinians. Would you not fight back against an invader of your homeland? Will you sit down and let yourselves be pushed about? And we wonder why things like 9/11, Madrid, London Bus Bombings, India Bombings, etc happen. The Israel and Palestine event is not because these people are BAD people and like conflict, it's due to events caused by powerful people and organizations from before World War I that to this day continue to be perpetuated. Conflict and war is the easiest course of action to follow and do, attempts at peace and solving the conflict at hand are not easy at all.

Now...are there solutions that involve anything short of genocide, World War III, massive movements of people, and otherwise non-lethal methods? Of course, one being making the entire region a single country. Others are dividing up current areas and negotiating permanent borders. Yet with all of the "truces and cease fires" then paired with human anger and violence, this does not seem likely anytime soon.

I think this states my position clearly, I believe Israel is an invasion state and the Palestinians have justification in their actions. In the very least they deserve the world's attention to get something done since their world and lives have been stolen from them. They have no future until this conflict ends. Of course the Jews have had a meager at best history of conflict and being used as targets of hate, to put a twist on things would it have been the best idea to leave the Jews in post WWII Europe should tensions between Christians and Jews arise? And would you not feel sympathy for a people so horrifyingly destroyed, moved to do something? I won't be naive and forget the history behind Christians and Jews, but I will not forget that after World War II some kind of reparation was necessary for them. Unfortunately after that conflict we set the world in order for the war torn thing it is now by violating a people's right to their homes and destroying their lives when they had done nothing wrong.

(This could turn into a flame war, I'll alert admin to watch this thread. I probably have some inaccurate notes in this, I did it all by memory, but it shouldn't be anything too glaring.)
(Haha, wow, left this out, I'm not surprised by this conflict honestly. This kind of shenanigan has happened all throughout history. Those with the best allies, the most powerful and adaptive, survive.)

[upsilon]

Hwoly fuck. That is some damn long explanation Kempff. Blah, really who knows why they're fighting? Who knows why half of these countries around the world are fighting? It could be all or none of the above. That's war for ya.

[kempff]

That's exactly the case. ;D

Heh, I'll leave this alone before I talk about war. Boyo would I get railed on with what I think about it.

[upsilon]

I can imagine xD And then we'd have a long topic of lots and lots of random thoughts about war, with everyone pointing out what they think would be the best way to bring peace to the world, then someone would bring up Kira and then things would get reallllllllllllllllllllllly random. xD