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Post by Akito on Aug 5, 2009 9:03:46 GMT -5
I've been pondering lately, what really characterizes Sora from other protagonists of adventure games? When I think of Sora, the first thing I think of is the keyblade; that is really the most defining part of him for me. Second to that is his extreme, almost prejudice, hatred for Nobodies. I believe several times he dismissed their lives being of worth, though I couldn't quote that.
What do you all think of our hero Sora?
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Post by Faust on Aug 5, 2009 9:40:46 GMT -5
It's actually pretty easy to forget that Sora is a kid sometimes. Sometimes, his tendency to be the big hero tends to border on the Gary Stu level (and I know there will be flying objects at my head for saying that.), but then I remember that he's a little kid who just happens to have been thrown in an adventure more ambitious than many other full-grown adult heroes.
I think, personally, that he doesn't do all those hero things because he has a sense of justice, as much as he really enjoys the concept of being the main character. I mean, they've shown many times over the course of the story that Sora has a "main character" complex. My best example would be in KH2, with the Pridelands. After hearing about a nasty lion king, his first thought was to dethrone Scar and maybe make himself king. ("I'd have to refuse, though," he says, as though he'd really go through with it.) And then there was the fact that he wanted to be a pirate, just because he saw how cool Jack Sparrow was. There's also the fact that, no matter where he goes, he feels the need to pry into everybody's problems, regardless of whether or not the Heartless or the Organization is involved.
I personally liked the Pridelands events because it actually showed a huge character flaw. Looking at that, it's not much of a stretch to think of Sora thinking of the Organization and the Heartless as the means to an end. He has no qualms about destroying human-like creatures like Nobodies, both because they have no emotions and because it's the ultimate adventure. He literally wants to save the universe, and thus make himself the ultimate hero.
Anyway, that's my extremely critical opinion. I can only hope the fangirls can forgive my opinion. >.>
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Post by stray on Aug 5, 2009 11:41:21 GMT -5
I don't think I could put it any better then Faust has, but in short, I completely agree.
Especially in KH2, I could never get over the fact that he could kill something so human in appearance and never doubt himself or feel guilty about it. I would also think that a true hero might try to 'help' by offering alternatives or solutions to a problem, not by wiping out everything in sight they find offensive. I mean, even though the Organization doesn't have hearts, they are still a body and soul to consider. But perhaps the body and soul means very little in the KH Universe?
I liked Sora a lot more in KH when he seemed more childlike and innocent. Back when he was just trying to save his friends and was the underdog. Sora in KH2, however, gets on my nerves. He's way too overpowered, and obviously it has gone to his head.
The way Sora is going now, I think he'll be great villian material in the future. I'd love to see Riku have to put him down. As a character, I've always liked Riku best. He's easier to relate to because he has many flaws. Sora is honestly too perfect.
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Post by Akito on Aug 5, 2009 11:57:19 GMT -5
Good points, guys. He's so perfect that it's a flaw. Simply, he plays the role of a hero too well that he sees the world in an almost jaded black and white. The good are good and the bad are bad. He's immature and imagines himself a hero (Perhaps to the point of delusion?), so it's only normal for him to vanquish his enemies without a second thought. He does seem to like Namine despite her being a Nobody too, so it might not be their species but simply their affiliation.
Those who stand against him, die. That simple. I don't recall him ever sparing enemies or looking for a peaceful resolution.
It's interesting he accepted his role as a hero destined to save the universe pretty well compared to most protagonist. Other protagonists seem to go through a soul searching phase where they say they don't want such burdens; but in the end accept their duty. Sora just jumped right in the band wagon.
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Post by angelous on Aug 5, 2009 12:05:27 GMT -5
*Proceeds to throw bowling balls at the previous posters' heads* NO BE MEAN TO SORA! D<
Nah I joke. I agree, Sora did have a tendency to slay first, ask questions later in KH2. He did as well in KH1, and COM, but it wasn't like he was doing it just to save the worlds. His friends were in trouble then. But in KH2, he's just like: "RAWR ME SORA, ME SMASH HEARTLESS AND NOBODIES!"
And yeah I realize that there really is no reasoning with Heartless, so they have to be eliminated, but Nobodies, ah that is another story. They have the ability to think, to plan, to reason, and thus should in a sense be able to be talked to. But not all fit this bill (as KH2 dictates). But what can ya do?
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Post by Heroic Bilby on Aug 5, 2009 13:10:47 GMT -5
Allow me to offer a counter-point.
In Chain of Memories Sora doesn't really "kill' an organization member until after his brain had already been warped by Namine to the point of obsessive desperation to "rescue" her. However, prior to that event the only one of them to die was Vexen, who was finished off by Axel. Before that event all of the black-coated people would appear to be humans for all we or Sora knew, but when Vexen died he turned into darkness and evaporated, more or less. This is not a very human way to die. So, even though we percieve them as people still, a hint of doubt is placed in ours and Sora's minds about their actual humanity... plus, as mentioned, the obsession to save Namine at all costs thing.
Riku is a bit different in that regard. Though Lexaeus was not strictly 'killed' by Riku in either version of CoM, I'm pretty sure he set on offing Zexion before the schemer ran away. And at that time I'm not sure Lexaeus' deaths would offer him the same possibility that these people aren't human beings, since GBA Lex exploded his own darkness and PS2 Lex was actually killed by Xehanort's Heartless and Riku may not have been witness to it.
Thus, Riku is a cold-hearted killer kid! D=<
-Cough- No, just kidding. He was spared 'killing' any of them directly. How heroic of him lol
Anyway, moving on to the beginning of KH2( Or at least the part where we actually start playing as Sora. <.< ) our protagonist and his two guardians are sat down by mega-ultimate sorcerer Yen Sid, magic master to King Mickey himself and commander of great respect from D & G, and then told about the Nobodies that have resulted from the Heartless. They are quite clearly educated not to be fooled by their appearance or their ability to act like people when they want to, because it is all an act and they really are just empty shells acting towards their own means using whatever tools are available to them. He was taught this right from the very start.
Even Xemnas at the end commends him for remembering that after he tries to fool some sympathy out of the heroes and fails.
Closing point:
KH2 Sora is a self-righteous brat... but he's still probably in the right.
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Post by stray on Aug 5, 2009 13:23:01 GMT -5
(You're counter-point really isn't much of a counter-point. xD) Actually, when you put it that way, it makes Sora seem like a closed minded, self-righteous brat that can't seem to acknowledge that there's more then just 'dark' and 'light'. Did he not think it worth his time to question just once what he was doing? Or if indeed the information he has continually been spoon fed was even right? I would at least like to have seen some hint of self doubt present. Point: No excuses! >  |
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Post by Faust on Aug 5, 2009 13:56:27 GMT -5
Ooh, I got a theory! I got a theory!
You know how villains get all crazy when they get too much power? You know, when the bad guy opens the Tome of Eldritch Lore or gets theArtifact of Endless power, he instantly thinks he's a god or something?
Consider Sora. He was a little kid, on an island, surrounded by nothing. He wasn't the strongest little kid, or the smartest, or the most skilled with a wooden sword. But he always wanted to go on an adventure, and more importantly he wanted to be the protagonist of his own adventure. Then the Heartless come, and Sora gets the opporitunity he always wanted. Only, he can't hurt them. How is he supposed to be the hero if he can't even touch the monsters that were heaven sent to be his enemies?
Enter the Keyblade. The ultimate holy force, the one weapon designed to be evil's bane, has been put in the hands of a ten-year-old. (Hoh-boy...) Now his real adventure can begin. Later on, he learns that the weapon is special, and whoever wields it is gonna be the chosen one.
Sora: "Eeeee!" *Big beaming face*
Well, that's it! This kid's read his fair share of adventure stories. If he's the chosen one, he's the main character, no questions asked. And as the main character, Sora wastes no time asserting the Protagonist's Bill of Rights.
1. The protagonist is the leader of the party, no matter what. (You try and tell me that Donald and Goofy, the castle's resident magician and the Captain of the Guard, would have let a ten year old lead them under any other circumstances.)
2. The protagonist gets to fly the airship/Gummi Ship/ Big piece of machinery. (After all, it's just like building a raft... right?)
3. The protagonist has no flaws, unless an entire scene is devoted to pointing them out and fixing them. (Meanwhile, poor Donald's greediness was a recurring theme.)
4. The protagonist's views on anything, no matter what the subject, are right. Anyone who disagrees or whose view differs in the slightest, is punished in the end. (And if we've learned anything front he way Disney villains are punished, it's in the most gruesome, spectacular way possible.)
Going to great lengths to exhibit Rule number Four, our hero goes into full "Luke Atmey" mode. He travels the universe, imposing himself in other people's stories and getting thanked for it. And since he has the ultimate power in his hands, and only his hands, nobody can touch him. He's the hero, he's the main character, and if anyone's gonna get their moment of glory (*coughSimbacough*) it's not gonna be without his help.
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Post by Heroic Bilby on Aug 5, 2009 14:15:01 GMT -5
(You're counter-point really isn't much of a counter-point. xD)
Exactly. lol
Actually, when you put it that way, it makes Sora seem like a closed minded, self-righteous brat that can't seem to acknowledge that there's more then just 'dark' and 'light'. Did he not think it worth his time to question just once what he was doing? Or if indeed the information he has continually been spoon fed was even right? I would at least like to have seen some hint of self doubt present. Point: No excuses!
Excuse: The information was right and there is only dark and light. =/ This stuff comes right from King Mickey's findings. Do you think Mickey Mouse is a self-righteous killer with no compassion in his heart for those who follow evil's path? I, at least, think not. But he's still right there with a Keyblade, helping cut Nobodies down.
2. The protagonist gets to fly the airship/Gummi Ship/ Big piece of machinery. (After all, it's just like building a raft... right?)
Donald flew the Gummi Ship... the one time Sora tried they crashed into Deep Jungle. XD But 'tis true he wanted to try it out!
I do think the whole "A kid trying to be a hero and getting something of a big head out of it" was on purpose though, because its fairly amusing at times. ^^
In the problem with Sora, the ultimate flaw from which this derives is that the storytelling was way better in KH1, where the gameplay itself was not quite as polished, so in KH2 these two were swapped around to suffer or benefit where the other had previously. KH2 just suffered too much from Dragonball -> Dragonball Z syndrome.
... I hope that doesn't mean KH3 will suffer Dragonball Z -> Dragonball GT syndrome! 
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Post by Detox on Aug 5, 2009 14:45:27 GMT -5
The way Sora is going now, I think he'll be great villian material in the future. I'd love to see Riku have to put him down. There is an awesome KH forum or fanfic in that concept, I'm sure. ---- Sora falls under Link syndrome. A young kid without any personal depth other than his pure boy personality and a boredom with the confines of their current town. Both attain a legendary weapon that makes him the Chosen One. Despite others having weapons of equal nature, only the Chosen One (Sora and Link) are capable of saving the world! On their way to save the world, they feel it is necessary to get into everyone's business; thus involving innocent people into the swell of Evil. Why? Because they get some special item/weapon from it or it somehow---in an unnecessary stretch---ties into the plot in some minor way. This is even worse in KH, because half the worlds would never have seen Heartless/Nobodies if Sora hadn't came to that world (them having a natural ability to track down the Keyblade, and all). I'm sure there is more of a relation, but I think I've proven my point well enough. Point is, Sora is pretty cliche and stereotypical of the video game world. |
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Post by Heroic Bilby on Aug 5, 2009 14:58:14 GMT -5
Of course he is. Fulfilling the basic ingrained archetypes of the hero's story that we experienced in our childhoods was the magic that made KH1 the success that it was.
... and also Cloud was in it.
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Post by angelous on Aug 5, 2009 15:51:33 GMT -5
....
I have no idea how to respond to the cloud comment.
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Post by IX. Demyx on Aug 5, 2009 17:06:47 GMT -5
If Cloud's in something, Sephiroth is in that something, and that makes it ten times more badass.
There, I responded for you.
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Post by kempff on Aug 5, 2009 17:21:50 GMT -5
Uhhh, why is everyone making more out of a character for kids?
Sora isn't supposed to be anything but the stereotypical good guy.
He creates unrealistic expectations that conflict in life is black and white.
Sora's motto ought to be, You're with me or against me.
Really 95% of all protagonists are that...
As for Link to Sora....sorry, Link is much more complex than Sora.
Yes, there happens to be the deus ex machina moments.
Video games really have to have those for young gamers to care.
However, Link undergoes actual loss, comrades dies, his fairy leaves him (Don't lie, if you hate Navi or not, that was a touching scene), etc.
In comparing these two franchises you have one with RICH, RICH culture that the developers created themselves.
The other is a mish-mash of different stories with dark and light to connect them, and no real depth of any world is explored.
Miraculously, Sora escapes all hardship. BS on Roxas and Namine being sad, they're different aspects of personality that got lucky.
I'm honestly disappointed with where KH's is going, there must be a gray aspect when concerning GOOD and EVIL. BUT, the next three games could change it and leave KH2 as the oddball out. C'mon, it was not a particularly good follow up to the first, at all. (CHoM in my opinion is a solid, enjoyable experience, but it's the same worlds all over with at times annoying door cards.)
Now for KHI being good, yes, but it took a different aspect of our child hood driven archetypes, much like Harry Potter did.
What made KHI better, I'm sorry, Cloud was not the key.
KHI is a great game that sold well based off the successful Squenix and Disney monster partnership.
The surprise battle with Sephiroth made that game legendary.
edit: Don't forget, the US got Sephiroth first, and then the Japanese released Final Mix to give Japanese gamers that battle and much more.
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Post by Amari on Aug 5, 2009 17:38:37 GMT -5
Demyx be quiet. No one cares about Sephiroth. It is all about Cloud, the lowly infrantryman who befriends Zack Fair, and then is addicted to mako. After that Zack dies protecting Cloud, and Cloud goes under an identy crisis and has a whole game based around figuring out his past.
Plus Cloud is cool.
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I did post in shades of grey if anyone even remembers that lmao